Sabbath or Sunday?

Hello again all my fact-truthers. Today I’m going to address the topic of the Sabbath and whether observances of that day and assembling of the Body of Christ on that day was meant to occur with Christians or not. This is going to be a very long post just to warn you beforehand, but I think it’ll be well worth the time you spend reading. We’ll begin where my curiosities and personal journey to finding an accurate conclusion for myself began. I’d say about two months ago I got into a conversation with a Seventh Day Adventist. The topic of the Sabbath came up, and I challenged this individual to give me reasoning for its continued observance and choice of assembling on that day as opposed to a majority of modern Christianity typically conducting rest and worship of the Lord on Sunday. So here is the following conversation edited slightly for conciseness. SDA represents this individual’s response, and FBT of course represents yours truly.

FBT

“I’ve always had questions about how Adventists reconcile the need to observe the Sabbath with other verses that seem to suggest differently. Such as (Colossians 2:16) that talks about no one being anyone’s judge with regard to Sabbath days, or (Romans 14:5-6) that talks about each person being fully convinced in their own minds of whatever day one chooses to regard special to the Lord. Not to get into a debate with you, just throwing out my thoughts and welcoming your perspective from studying to enlighten me in understanding your beliefs more fully. Alternatively, the reasoning I’ve thought of Sunday as a special day to worship the Lord was because that was the day Apostle Paul chose to get together with some believers in (Acts 20:7) to break bread, and it’s noted as the day Jesus rose from the dead in (Matthew 28), (Mark 16), (Luke 24), and (John 20). But beyond the scriptural thoughts, I think it’s really cool you use that time period to share the love of Jesus with others. That’s a very wonderful thing!”

SDA

“Well, to answer your question as to the need to keep the commandments, it is more than just a need, it is a command. Just as I should not steal, lie, commit adultery, covet, dishonor my parents, put other ‘gods’ before God..etc. The interesting thing is, the Sabbath command is the only one that establishes God as the Creator, yet it seems to be the one most people have issues with. I could get into a longer discourse with you about the specifics and I will if you wish to with an open mind, but I will tell you this, the scriptures you named were saying many things, but none which was speaking of the 7th day Sabbath.

In fact, (Romans 14:5-6) Paul was talking to the Romans about the day of atonement stating that the Jews did not have to keep that day anymore; however, there were some who held on to it, and if it pleased them to do so there was nothing wrong with it, but understand that Christ died as the atoning Lamb which the ritual of the atonement was pointing to. In other words, He was the perfect sacrifice that the atoning sacrifice was pointing to. Paul was saying leave them alone and let them continue to have that day if they wanted to and they are still doing it to this day. In Leviticus 23, when Moses was introducing the feast days to the Israelites, he made a distinction between the feast days and the Sabbath in Leviticus 23:3. In Acts 20:7 Paul gathered and preached, but nowhere did he say it was for Sabbath worship.

Yet, many places we are told that the Sabbath is a holy day. Paul traveled extensively and would meet and preach on many days. We can hold a bible meeting any day of the week, yet there is only one day which the Lord ever said was the Sabbath and set aside as holy. Paul also preached on Sabbath (Acts 13:42-45), and this was after the death and resurrection of Jesus. In all of the gospels as you mentioned here Jesus rose on the first day of the week (Sunday) which means he was crucified on Friday, resting in the tomb on Saturday (Sabbath) and rose on the first day. Jesus rested on the Sabbath. In Luke 23:54, it spoke of Jesus being crucified on the preparation day (good Friday) the day before the Sabbath and the Sabbath drew on, and He rose on the first day. It is clear which day the Sabbath was. This is pretty significant to me.

Nowhere anywhere does it give a change. Yet, there seem to be a change, and I can tell you how that came about, but it did not come from God, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. It came from man thinking he could change God’s law. There is record of Jesus reading in the synagogue as His custom was. If he wanted it changed there were plenty of opportunities for Him to voice it, yet He never did. He said many things about the Sabbath, and one thing is that it is a Holy day. It is the only day He said that about. That is why it is important to me. I will also add that the Lord did not only command it, He followed it first (Genesis 2:3).

I always think it is important to take many things into consideration when reading scripture. First it is always necessary to pray that the Holy Spirit will interpret the words for us so we can understand exactly what the author was inspired to write. Then it is important to not take every verse as if it can stand alone. We have to keep things in context which means sometimes we have to read several verses before and after the scripture to get a clearer picture. I hope I articulated clearly, I know I wrote a lot.”

FBT

“I took a careful review of the initial commandments in Exodus (murder, stealing, lie, etc.) and found just about all of them are re-referenced again in the New Testament in one form or another as commands to still be upheld. Being an intellectually honest person, I must admit that that fact would add more credence to your belief that God intended for Christians to continue to keep the Sabbath. But what I was unable to confirm, and maybe you can point a verse out to me, is if anywhere in the NT seventh day Sabbath is specifically re-stated or re-affirmed in one form or another in the Apostles letters as a part of Christian teaching, much like the other commands can be found to be re-stated or re-affirmed as things to be still upheld in Christian living? I think you gave a suggestion to that later in your writing, which I’ll see what I think when I get to that point, but I’m just addressing everything you said in the order you wrote it.

You raise a fair point that the “seventh day Sabbath” is not specifically stated in Romans 14:5-6. But you stated that the verse is referring to the Day of Atonement, and I re-read the verse again and didn’t see those words specifically stated or any mentioning of the Jews stated. Is there background or secondary material on those specific verses that brings you to the conclusion that Paul is referring to the Day of Atonement that no longer needs to be followed? Or is there something in the larger context of the passage that you think strongly suggests that? But I did look through Leviticus 23 and saw that there did appear to be a distinction between feast days and Sabbath day. You’re right that Acts 20:7 does not mention Sabbath worship. I guess the point I was making here was this was an example of preaching happening on the first day of the week.

But I suppose it’s questionable at best whether it was an official new time of gathering of worship since this is the only time mentioning of a meeting on the first day, and it wasn’t stated as a command of new precedence, but more as a detail of what was happening. Although it’s interesting that also in 1 Cor 16:2, it mentions collection being collected on the first day of week, mentioning that it was also directed to the Galatians as well. But of course still it’s not mentioning assembling for worship in that verse. I agree that the Sabbath is referred to as a holy day from seeing verses stating that in Scripture. I also agree that the Sabbath appears to have been Saturday (or technically Friday Sundown to Saturday Sundown going by the time frame which was followed at the time).

You’ll have to point me to the verse that Jesus stated Sabbath was a holy day because I couldn’t find it, but there are verses that reference Sabbath as a holy day, and your point is taken about the importance Jesus expressed of that day, given He stated in the Gospels that Sabbath was made for man (Mark 2:27). As I typed in Sabbath in the search bar on blueletterbible.org, which is a very wonderful tool for finding every verse on a specific topic, I did notice that Jesus did teach on the Sabbath.  I also noticed there was some frequent mentioning of the Apostle Paul preaching on the Sabbath in Acts. And you’re correct in noting that God followed his own command of Sabbath in Genesis 2:3. All very strong points that would seem to point to a continuation of worship conducted on Sabbath day.

I too like you think it’s important to let Scripture interpret Scripture, or as you called it, “praying the Holy Spirit will interpret the words for us”. The reason I call it Scripture interpreting scripture, is because I believe since Holy Spirit authored Scripture (2 Peter 1:21-22), we get the Holy Spirit’s interpretation through letting Scripture explain Scripture, or in other words, believing what scripture states as a whole. We both agree in the importance of context, and being that I’m not a perfect person, as much as I try to believe all my beliefs based on what scripture states and indicates in context, on some issues I can still unknowingly harken back to preconceived notions I’ve learned in the past without remembering if I have firmly questioned and looked at the issue in context of all the scriptures as I’ve grown to do so in the last few years. I’ve certainly had to change my mind on what I’d initially thought was a correct belief many times before not realizing I had put my own thoughts into the text rather than thinking exactly what the text is stating.

In saying all of that, I do find myself slightly leaning towards the position that the assembling of the body of Christ for worship is meant to be conducted on Seventh Day Sabbath. The only thing I ponder is if there’s a direct re-statement or reaffirmation of that within Paul’s or Peter’s letters, though certainly Paul’s actions in Acts showed that there was a continuation of worship on Sabbath Day. And there does not appear to be a direct command of a change of worship day to the first day of the week. And just curious since I’m not sure if you answered in your first response on this topic, but what’s your understanding on Colossians 2:16?”

Early Church Fathers Thoughts

Now I did not get a response after this message for which I have no explanation for. I don’t know if this person couldn’t answer my lingering thoughtful skepticism, or was just unwilling to engage further in a discussion that it seems in their first response they were firmly settled on their own conclusion. But I’ve continued to study this issue myself and found other interesting things for thought that changed my thinking to the final present conclusion I have that I’ll reveal at the end. One of those interesting things were the writings of early church fathers such as Ignatius. Some Sunday advocates cite them as proof that there was a shift in worship being conducted on Sunday, and there no longer being a necessity to conduct worship on a Sabbath day (http://www.christian-history.org/sabbath.html).

At first glance these quotes in this article from early church fathers I would grant as compelling evidence for Sunday assembling. But the question that remained unanswered to me is why some of the church fathers felt compelled to choose assembling to be conducted on a Sunday. Was there something in the teachings of the Apostles that supports what they were teaching in making this choice? I find early church writings from leaders after the apostolic era are very useful only if they reaffirm certain teachings that are already stated within scripture.

Though in addition to my questioning of that, I dug deeper into trying to find these quotes in context with the passages they were written in by the church fathers, and stumbled upon another article that criticizes citation of these writings as debunking continuation of Sabbath observance (http://www.cogwriter.com/ignatius.htm). The argument in this article is that the users of certain passages refuting Sabbath observance are arguing based off of Greek translated words that aren’t in the original writings, and that other passages of these writers would seem to affirm continuation of the observance of Sabbath Day. Unfortunately I don’t understand Greek enough, apart from following the Greek translations I make use of in some of writings from blueletterbible.org, to determine whether this writer’s suggestions are accurate or not. The writer of the article does cite a lot of different sources to back up their claims though.

Romans 14:5-6, Colossians 2:16-17, Galatians 4:9-11

But putting aside all of that and getting back to the scripture, even as I stated to this person that I leaned slightly closer to continued observance and choosing assembling of the body of Christ being conducted on Sabbath day, if you recall I had still questioned for adequate explanation for the verses I referenced to her. Romans 14:5-6 states, “5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.” Colossians 2:16-17 states, “16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day–17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

In arguments I’ve looked up on Romans 14:5-6, Sabbath advocates suggest that Paul is talking about feasting days in those verses. When looking at the context of the verses, Paul does appear to be primarily talking about eating and food before and after those two verses. Though still, it does directly say, “one regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in their own mind”. Seemingly a suggestion of freedom in choices of importance with regards to days observed for the Lord in verse 6, and it never does directly say it’s referring to feasting days. Nonetheless though, still a thought-provoking and possibly valid explanation. The department chair of theology and philosophy at Andrews University wrote an interesting paper on this verse worth reading (https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/Onedaybetter.pdf). In full disclosure, the college is affiliated with Seventh Day Adventist, but the writer seems to lay out both sides of the argument with thoughtful consideration, and offers insight on historical and cultural background.

With regards to Colossians 2:16-17, on the surface, it would seem like this verse essentially says, no one should be judged for anything relating to the Sabbath Day. As I searched the web for an explanation of this verse from Sabbath advocates, the arguments I found repeated were that these were referring to ceremonial Sabbath days, noting that the King James version translates the Greek word used for Sabbath day as “Sabbath days”. It’s also a footnote as a possible variation of translation in the NASB translation I typically read. But I question if that’s the case why Paul does not specifically state “ceremonial Sabbath days”. But arguers point a couple verses back to Col 2:14 as illustrating the context of that verse referring to ceremonial days because of the mentioning of Christ doing away with decrees, which the meaning of the Greek translated word dogma, means “a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):—decree, ordinance” and another meaning given was “the rules and requirements of the law of Moses”.

In Exodus 20:3-17, we see God giving the initial Ten Commandments, and then in Exodus 21, we see God beginning to give the ordinances. Is it possible this is what the Sabbath advocates are referring to that the passage is actually talking about being done away with? As I’ve looked more and more into the issue I’ve found myself in the rare position of having more questions than answers at times. I think the fact that after the resurrection and the beginning of the Christian church the Apostles maintained observance of the Sabbath, and the fact that some of the initial commandments given in Exodus 20 are reiterated in the Apostle teachings as things to be obeyed, that would seem to this writer a somewhat convincing argument for continuation of observance of the Sabbath and choosing to assemble the body of Christ on the Sabbath.

Though on the other side of the argument, there seems to be no direct teaching from the Apostles on such a continuation. In fact in Galatians 4:9-11, Paul seems to even condemn such observances of days when he states, “But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.” But of course, I can hear the Sabbath advocate I was communicating with pointing out again that the Sabbath wasn’t mentioned in this verse and that in mentioning the Law earlier in this chapter, Paul is once again talking about ceremonial days. Though some commentaries come to the conclusion Paul was in fact referencing the Sabbath Day in this verse along with ceremonial observances. Neither point is explicitly stated by Paul though.

No Sunday Command

Nonetheless, there’s also certainly no clear Sunday declaration of assembling that can be found in Scripture if one is being humbly accurate. As I pointed out in my original response to SDA, the mentioning of actions on Sunday do seem incidental more than consequential. If it were a precedent to begin conducting assembling of the body of Christ on Sundays, it would seem there would be more than just an incidental reference in Acts 20:7 of Paul happening to meet up with a group one Sunday to break bread and talk with them about what we don’t fully know. And something more than just a small reminder to the church at Corinth in 1 Corinthians 16:1 to gather collections for the saints like the Church at Galatia did on the first day of the week. Those are the main verses Sunday advocates point to.

No Christian Sabbath assembling

At the same time, and I know I’m going back and forth but keep following with me, when the Apostles spoke to the people on the Sabbath, those weren’t Christians they were speaking to. They were people in the town, Jews, Greeks, and proselytes (Gentile converted Jews) that were being given the Word of the Lord and they were trying to convert them to Christianity. As far as I could see, there was no direct statement in Acts stating specifically baptized saved Christians were choosing assembling of the Body on the Sabbath. You can double check those verses in Acts mentioning the Sabbath and make sure I’m accurate.

Jesus on the Sabbath

Let’s return to Jesus on this issue of the Sabbath. He did say the Sabbath was made for man, and He also taught in the synagogues on the Sabbath. Though something interesting I found is that in an exchange with a young man asking him what good thing he should do to obtain eternal life, Jesus stated in Matthew 19:16-19 “16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Now ignoring the fact that we know keeping commandments doesn’t obtain us eternal life since this was before the resurrection, its interesting Jesus didn’t state the commandment of the Sabbath to the young man. Does this perhaps suggest that Sabbath advocates overemphasize something that Jesus didn’t?

One other article I read suggested there may not be a definitive argument for either position of which day Christians are instructed to assemble for worship. That perhaps maybe it was the case both Sabbath and Sunday assembling were conducted during the time period of the early church. They point out Acts 2:46 to suggest it’s less about which day is chosen for assembling of the body of Christ, and more so about the fact assembling was conducted. Acts 2:46 states “Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart.” Note the usage of the words “Day by day”. And prior to this verse, Acts 2:42 also indicated a consistent focus on things stating, “They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.” But then does that beg the question that the body of Christ was meant to assemble with one another every day?

Concluding Thoughts

There are a lot of interesting questions to pose on this subject on both sides of the argument. As you all know, what matters most to me in writing these postings is that I’m doing things as close to the way God wants me to according to His Word. In all of my writings, you see that I back up every choice of belief and practice with direct statements in scripture in its context, and have made it a mission to check the strength of my argued beliefs against any arguments of a different choice of belief that others hold from mine. I challenge those alternative beliefs using the same formula I use for my own beliefs, refuting those arguments by showing the verses those arguments use in context which reveals what appears to be the verses true meaning, and showing that there are no direct statements of those alternative beliefs that people purport as true, pointing out the appearance of mere subjective perception placed into the text.

In doing these things, looking through all verses, I believe strongly I reach to a very closely accurate scripture based belief to hold and practice to live by. But of course things are always subject to re-evaluation, because there are some things we’ll never fully understand. We’ll only know as much as we’re given in scripture through continued studying and learning over time. To get to the point though, in combining all that I know currently and always being prepared to change my belief as I continue to learn more, here’s my current conclusion. In this writer’s opinion, there does not appear to have ever been a designation of Sunday for assembling of the Body of Christ in Scripture.

There also does not appear to be an example of an assembling of the body of Christ on Sabbath either. What we’re left with here is no answer to a specific day designated for the Body of Christ to assemble. To this writer’s conclusion, the only answer is that it is a good for the body of Christ to assemble for the Lord any day of the week, and perhaps even in the case given of the example we had presented to us in Acts 2:46, maybe they even assembled every day of the week. As far as the continued observance of the Sabbath by Christians, the arguments I’ve seen for it while I find somewhat convincing, I don’t know I find them to be strong enough to tell others to continue its observance given the lack of direct statements in the teachings of the Apostle instructing a continued observance by Christians. Though personally, I would choose to observe it myself as a means of exercising my own desires of wanting to be more spiritually connected with God.

As always, any thoughts or questions, feel free to share them with me and other readers for the sake of our collective elevation of knowledge in living as followers of Christ. If this post enlightened you in anyway, I would greatly appreciate if you shared this among your social media circle so others can be enlightened as well. Peace to all those who are in Christ.

Advertisements

18 thoughts on “Sabbath or Sunday?

  1. I’ve heard debates about this and have been curious to know if there is an answer. Sunday’s nowadays are more of a resting period for me. In addition I believe what day you attend church isn’t the most important thing. The important part is attending church of your own volition, as part of your relationship to Christ. Such an articulate, insightful post, I learned a couple things.

    • Hello Fallible. Thanks for your comment. If you choose to rest on Sunday, that’s your choice, and I don’t think anyone (particularly Seventh Day Adventists) should have a problem with that with no specific command or example given of Christians continued observance of the Sabbath. It should only be a personal choice of anyone to choose to appreciate and practice what God started in the beginning. With the separate issue of a day of assembling, as you expressed I agree that it’s more important that it’s done, than any specific day one may think it should be done. And also as I inferred through Acts 2:46, it appears to have been something the first Christians considered important enough to do more than just one specific day with the statement of “day by day”. But I’ll leave that statement up to one’s own conclusion as to what that suggests God wants them to do. One final verse I’ll leave for thought to everyone that I didn’t include in my post is Hebrews 10:25 which states, “not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.” I encourage everyone to read the very next verse that comes after that, and ponder why the Hebrews writer made that statement right after he mentioned assembling together. And of course read over the verses around those verses to make sure you’re getting the full picture. Peace to everyone in Christ. 🙂

  2. This is an awesome blog. You have covered all these very well, but you are still seeking the answers to Col 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5&6.
    First I would like to mention here something you agree with according to your statements that we must pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit for all our bible quests John 14:26. What has been shown to me, as I follow that promise that the Comforter will guide us into all truth. . . I realized that there is only ONE translation of God’s holy word and that is the KJV bible. I use to attend bible studies with no less than 10 translations and concordance, commentaries ETC. . . That didn’t last long after the Lord revealed John 14:26 to me. He showed me that if we pick and choose which translation “sounds” best to our finite minds we are not letting the Holy Spirit do that for us. I like to use the NIV translation as an example for how much different the doctrines can be from one translation to the other. In the early 70s the NIV was written, then again in 1984 they revised it and omitted 8 verses from the new testament while they were flat out lying about the manuscripts being “older” therefore more “accurate”. Then again in 2011 they “revised” it again and removed 9 more verses from the NT alone, thus 17 verses are completely omitted from the NIV translation which is outselling the ONLY true bible there is the KJV bible. If there are questions about using different translations at a bible study then choose a verse and ask each person who has a different translation to read the same verse at the same time. That is babylon! Furthermore when someone tells me to open my bible to a certain verse and starts reading a different translation I get way off track. That is disturbing.. .Anyway it is not the translation itself but the satanic counterfeit manuscripts that most translations are translated from that is the problem.

    That being stated, and hopefully we are on the same page let’s look at Col 2:14 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” Paul wrote this in a way that we can easily tell which “handwriting of ordinances” he is referring to. If we read Deuteronomy:31:24: “And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.” Paul writes that this “handwriting of ordinances” “that was against us” and “contrary to us” is the same language Moses uses to describe the book of the law which he wrote and had stored in THE SIDE of the ark of the covenant to be a witness against them. Those who try to put the ten commandments into this verse have not studied their bibles. The ten commandments have always been considered holy just and good, and even a blessing, not a curse, nor against us, even if it does point out the sin in our lives.

    Let’s look at Col 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” If we use this rule about the law Paul is referring to is the book that Moses wrote we can also ad a couple words to this verse. “Let no man therefore judge you in meat “offerings”, or in drink “offerings” or in respect of an holy “feast” day… That is what was always against the people and contrary to them. They had to kill, something God calls His “strange act”. To kill would be contrary to any moral ideals.

    Now lets look at Romans:14:5&6 “One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.” This context says nothing about worship, feast days, nor any type of religious service. I wake up every morning giving God thanks, even though some days are diamonds and some days are stones. Holy day, sabbath days, feast days, some days we look forward to and some days we do not.

    You also mentioned that there is no sure verse that RE-instates the sabbath in the new testament . In Hebrews 4 we read about sabbitismos. Verse 9
    “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.” That word rest is only used in this one place which means the sabbath rest, and Paul states that this rest does remain

    God bless you in your efforts to shed more light on bible truth
    The ONLY way to grow in knowledge is to be challenged, not argue!

    • Hi Jeff. Thanks for your comment, and I appreciate your complimenting of my blog. With regards to my mentioning of agreeing about Holy Spirit guidance, I currently hold a sola scriptura view of things. 2 Timothy 3:16 states, “16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;” I think this verse seems to be a strong indication that a follower of Christ has all the information they need through scripture. 2 Peter 1:21-22 states, “But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” So in this verse, it appears to indicate Scripture is a product of the Holy Spirit. In combining my current understanding of these two verses, we seem to get all the correct information we need from scripture, thus perhaps all truth, and since scripture is a product of the Holy Spirit’s moving, thus perhaps we get guidance from Holy Spirit through scripture alone. With regards to the verse you quoted in John 14, Jesus directed that statement to the chosen Apostles He was speaking to in that passage. Scripture appears to show us an example of this in action by Apostle Peter being able to know Ananias was being dishonest about holding back some of the price of the property he sold for himself through the Holy Spirit in Acts 5. What are your views on these verses? Do you think these verses possibly indicate the conclusions I’ve suggested in your analysis of them?

      Putting aside our possible difference of Holy Spirit views for a moment, which I know is the main foundation of your conclusion on the KJV being the most accurate one, I have not studied the issue of translations as deeply as I’d like. I only have a minimal knowledge of certain points made for and against older and newer versions, such as the manuscript point newer translation advocates make and the missing verses point KJV advocates make. I guess for myself, I ponder if there was really a specific translation that was meant for all people to read, my genuine answer-seeking question would be why does that not appear to be specifically stated in scripture anywhere? But I’m curious, what other information have you looked into on this subject that also made you determine that those older manuscripts are counterfeit?

      Nonetheless, focusing on the main issue of this post again, I think I understand the conclusion you’re making on Col 2:16, but please correct me if I’m restating it wrong. Because Paul used similar language in Col 2:14 to what Moses used in Deuteronomy 31:24 respectively, that indicates the ordinances are what’s being talked about in being done away and no longer used to be judged, distinctly separate from the commandments, and thus the Sabbath is upheld. I agree there’s an appearance of a difference between the initial commandments and the ordinances. I think Exodus 20 and 21 better illustrates that, but at any rate, we’re in agreement this would appear to be a plausible understanding of things. Where I still have reservations is where you have made the leap to inserting the words “holy days” where Paul specifically states “Sabbath day(s)”. It goes back to my original question in this post, if it’s referring to holy days of the past, why did Paul specifically use the word Sabbath day(s)? Is it something that you would concede that if the words “holy days” were written in the verse rather than “Sabbath days”, your conclusion would perhaps have more weight to it?

      With regards to the verse in Romans, I think some make the feast day explanation because of how much it talks about eating and not judging on what to eat in the overall passage. Let’s look at Romans 14:1-6, “1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks”

      Can you see the consistency of Paul talking about eating around the two verses he talks about days? The link I placed in that Romans 14:5-6 paragraph discussion of a Seventh Day Adventist university chair of philosophy and religion addressing this verse also seems to make a similar conclusion. But you’re correct though that it’s not specifically stated, so it’s not a definitive conclusion. As I conceded to the person I was conversing with on this topic in the beginning of my post, it is correct that it does not specifically state Sabbath day, if that’s what you’re referring to when you state worship day/type of religious service not being discussed. I had trouble understanding you’re overall conclusion on this verse, but are you concluding it’s meaning to be that people look forward to different days, and make up their own mind to what day they look forward to for the Lord? And I’m assuming you’re saying also that even though someone may not look forward to Sabbath compared to another day, they are to still observe it? But would that still beg the question of why it says one should be fully persuaded in their own mind of what days to regard for the Lorid if it’s simply just about some people feeling differently about what day they look forward to? If I’m misunderstanding your words in your conclusion of this verse, once again please correct me to understanding your conclusion accurately.

      With regards to Hebrews 4:9, there might possibly be a larger context in the overall passage if we look at the other verses. Let’s look at Hebrews 4:1-6. “1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST, 4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS; 5 and again in this passage, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST. 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, “

      The writer appears to be stating that the disobedience of those who did not have faith in the good news that they heard did not enter the rest. However, those who have believed have entered that rest.

      Hebrews 4:11 states, “11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.” What example of disobedience is being talked about here? It would seem to be the disobedience of not having faith in the good news in order to enter the rest.

      Looking back to Hebrews 4:7-8, it states, “7 He again fixes a certain day, Today, saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.” So we know Jesus came from the lineage of David (Matthew 1), so it would seem to be alluding to not hardening one’s hearts to what’s being heard now of what’s being talked about primarily in this passage, which is having faith in the good news. God would not have spoken another day if the rest was received through Joshua, alluding to the old covenant.

      So following along to Hebrews 4:9-10 based on what the previous verses stated and the verse after, the context of what’s being stated appears to be that there remains a rest for the people of God to enter in, resting from works to enter His rest, entering His rest through faith in the good news. In that context, it would seem not to be a direct statement to Christians to continue observing the Sabbath, but a reminder of salvation through belief in the good news. Would it seem in light of the verses around Hebrews 4:9 that this would be a more valid understanding? Was my usage of the verses around Hebrews 4:9 to offer an alternative conclusion similar to the way you used Colossians 2:14 to offer an alternative conclusion for Colossians 2:16?

      Blessings to you as well in your continued faith journey. I hope none of my words came off argumentative in response to you as my intent in my words was hopefully to come across equally as challenging and thoughtfully engaging as you were in response to my post. It’s always a pleasure to experience iron sharpening iron conversation. Look forward to your response if you give one, and peace to you in Christ. 🙂

      • So I read most of the (great post ) but for me it is simple……the 10 Commandments were never changed. These are God’s commands that are to be obeyed. The funny thing is, the fourth commandment starts with “Remember” but it’s the one that is mainly forgotten. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.

      • Hi mycreatorscreation. Thank you for your comment. Yes, the commandments weren’t ever amended to my knowledge. Some could suggest in Jesus emphasizing the top two commandments Jesus simplified them to those two things people should focus most. But I know someone could counterargue “Well then if you love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, then it should reason that you should observe His sabbath day.” I have a curious question I wonder if you could offer some insight if you happen to be a Seventh Day Adventist. Why is it for this denomination the Sabbath is the thing that is viewed as the most or at least one of the most important things to emphasize about Christianity? It’s always fascinating to me what different things different denominations choose to emphasize as the central tenet of Christianity and why.

        Peace to you in Christ. 🙂

      • Hello factbasedtruth it’s great to dialogue with you. You said that you had a question and wondered if I could offer some insight if I happened to be a Seventh Day Adventist…then your question was why the denomination viewed the Sabbath as the most important thing to emphasize about Christianity….Well to answer you, I don’t think that you could tell from my blogs if I am an Adventist or not, simply because in my blogs I continually try to lift up Father, Son & Holy Spirit in the hopes of planting seeds that would point some unbeliever to the saving grace of Jesus. To answer your question, I am an Adventist, but I do not choose to make that the most important thing I have to say. I don’t think that the denomination as a whole does that either, but I think that some Adventist people talk about the Sabbath as though it is their saving grace…which of course it isn’t. ….So I must say I like your title “factbasetruth.” It reminds me about what I’ve heard about the early days of Adventist, and that is (if I remember correctly) a group of Priest and Ministers, some out of the Catholic Church, some Methodist, and probably other denominations got together to read and study the bible diligently, so they could live as close to the “facts” of what the bible stated, and as they looked for the bible truths I would have to believe that it was none other than the Holy Spirit that guided them to the start of the Advent Message, with worship being on Saturday instead of Sunday. I think that in one of your replies someone pointed you to Constantine. You should look him up and read about him. I’m not a history buff, but Constantine ruled the Roman Empire, he changed worship from Saturday to “Sun”day, because he was a sun worshiper. I think he also brought about Christmas and Easter, mixed a little bit of truth with the secular and confused the whole world in the process. So any way the bottom line for me as an Adventist is to plant seeds that might lead to God’s kingdom, and leave the Holy Spirit to do the wooing. Hope this comment helps, and may the Holy Spirit continue to guide you, as I think He is.

      • Thank you for sharing your insight with me. I haven’t fully studied the history of Adventism, so it’s a pleasure to receive the knowledge you have as a participant of the denomination. I also recall reading something about Sunday, Constantine and sun worshiping in the history of how Sunday worship came about. I’ll have to look more into that again. Thank you for your compliment of my blog and the healthy dialogue that we’ve had.

      • No problem factbasedtruth. It’s a very good thing to look to study and understand the bible….I’m always looking and trying to remember and to recall scriptures especially, and we can all stand to learn something new from each other. Blessings!!

  3. It’s been awhile since I studied this topic, but I seem to remember learning that Constantine made Sunday worship a “law.”

    I didn’t click on the reference links in your well written post…maybe Constantine was mentioned in one of those sources? If so/if not…your thoughts?

    • Hi Bambi Lynn. Thanks for your comment. Just based off of brief google searching and skimming through some links that appears to be so. I haven’t looked too deeply into that before, but I do however know from some research that some things that we do today are based on Roman authorities having establishing these things within cultural. The celebration of Christmas and Easter being the most prominent examples. It’s an interesting thought to ponder if we should be doing in our choices of practices of our faith things that were established by men, or things established only by Holy Spirit written scripture.

      Peace to you in Christ. 🙂

  4. Hi this is really interesting. it’s great that you clearly want to know what the truth of scripture is; it’s the truth that sets us free. I am a Christian and go to church on a Sunday, as they do in Scotland, I’m also very much aware that Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath. Jesus was King of the Jews from the tribe of Judah. I have been looking into Messianic Judaism for the last year or so. Mainly because Jesus practiced Judaism.
    Many people want to argue about keeping Torah and being a follower of Jesus. Jesus never broke any of the Torah if so he would have sinned. The problem comes when we are taught that Jesus came to take away the Torah. If I lived Torah then I would be clean outwardly. Jesus died and sent his Holy Spirit so we could be clean on the inside. When we follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit then we fulfill the Torah, Jesus said he has come not to do away with the Torah (law) but to fulfill it. Jeremiah 33 says the new Covenant will be written on their hearts, as apposed to stone tablets.
    The Sabbath to Jews is a Saturday if it’s good enough for Jesus then it’s good enough for me. I am called to become Christ like that means Torah and Saturday Sabbath. Some people just want to argue with me about this so I keep quiet!!!!
    Blessings Richard

    • Hi Richard. Thank you for your comment. Messianic Judaism is certainly quite an interesting group from what I’ve read on them in the past. Do you think it follows if in one choosing to observe the Sabbath in an effort to be Christ like, then it follows one should follow all of what the Law teaches in the manner that Jesus did? Observing dietary laws and other ordinances that Jesus would have observed as well?

      Peace to you in Christ. 🙂

      • Hi I love Messianic Judaism as it brings more depth to the scriptures. I do struggle sometimes as it means that I should keep all the laws. Not keeping some laws is just the same as having to pick and choose, or actually choosing to pick and choose. It has increased my faith in Jesus and I try and walk in it but I find it very difficult but rewarding. The dietry laws are something I have decided not to follow as they are unappealing to me. my struggle is I am supposed to have given my life up to be more Christ like.
        I hope this makes sense. I am just starting to walk Torah and working out what that looks like in my walk with Jesus.
        Bless You
        Richard

      • I appreciate your candor, Richard. All of these things are definitely something interesting to think about, and I suppose something we all have work out what that seems to look like, being Christ like. Thank you again for sharing your insight.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s